Decathlon 2022 Preparation

I think multiple votes per category makes the problem worse, I think it should be one vote per category. My thought was that you would just post each poll twice, once for upvote and once for downvote.

But…again I don’t want to over-complicate. I would prefer a single vote per person, per category if we wanted to keep it simple.

Not sure how it makes it worse when you can pick 2 games you don’t hate and someone else can only pick that game once? Anyway, I’ll think on it some more this week when it’s not Monday morning with a pile of work on my plate… :wink:

I just love the rules discussions, so sorry if I seem like I am being a PITA, I will be good with anything (except maybe Twilight Stuggle, which I deleted from my iPAD in rage 2 Decathlons ago.)

I am trying to wrap my head around the math distribution difference between 21 votes for 5 choices vs 63 votes for 5 choices. Because even though the votes are equally weighted in this type of poll, there is rank choice being ignored, that would be forced if you only have a single vote. So some games with lot’s of what would be 2nd or 3rd votes can do better.

I’m also not a fan of voting by categories, as I think the better games should rise to the top. Poor categorization makes the matter worse though. The above breakdown is okay, but there are still issues (especially when one category is based on weight rather than mechanics).

Terraforming Mars is not a Tile Placement game, Le Havre definitely qualifies as a Heavy Weight by these standards, Player Action isn’t really a great category, my memory of Neuroshima Hex puts it more as a Fighting game, and Network Building seems to be trying to force a train game on us, but will most likely result in us playing Brass again.

More than anything, I’d like to see more new blood in the Decathlon. While our favourites are often rightfully so, I think after two or three years of being in the Decathlon they should sit out for at least a year to make room for some newer games.

In terms of games, the suggestions have covered most of the newer entries, but after years of Ascension and Star Realms, I think it is reasonable to expect we could add Dominion into the Decathlon to fill the typical deckbuilder slot.

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This please.

Ha! I wondered when you were going to show up (to complain), @Hardco! :wink:

(But seriously, I appreciate your constructive criticism, as always…)

As I said, the events aren’t perfect - take a look at the Google Sheet and you’ll see it’s not an easy task and there likely isn’t an ideal distribution. I’ll take another run at it this week though, and will take your feedback (and everyone else’s) into consideration.

Also note my point that this method (flawed as it may be) guarantees that we will get at least a couple of new games and have a chance to add brand new games for the second part of the Decathlon.

Having said that, I’m all for change, but there’s also a reason why some/many games keep making it back in - everyone loves to play them.

How about Monopoly so I have a chance to actually win a game with my pea brain?

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On the most-disliked game, we could pick 11 or 7 games and have.a poll for one to get voted off the island (correct results include RftG, Agricola)…

More constructively, the 6+4 (maybe 7+3) idea is good. Also happy to say that any game that’s been in two of the last 3 decathlons gets rested, even if that means I don’t get to play Brass again.

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Ok, still digging on this one… I think this distribution fits quite a bit better - I went through every game and tried to think about what makes that game quintessentially that game…

The sets aren’t quite even and there are three games that don’t quite fit…

Root could be considered Area Control, but that’s not all it is.

Galaxy Trucker does depend on how you do Tile Placement but again not quite like the others in that set.

And Disc Drivin’ 2 is just totally out in left field… (sorry, @Jammatal :wink: )

I think we could drop the last two events in this list for now and do a 7+3 as suggested by @SpiceTheCat

As for the “hated” games, I’ve only heard Twilight Struggle and Viticulture, so it’s not clear to me that it’s really going to be an issue or - more specifically - that it’s worth the effort to do so many polls. I’d rather wait and see if there’s actually any reason for whining and gnashing of teeth… :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, here’s pass #2 - I’m more than happy to hear some tweaks on this to even things out, or maybe this is good enough for now… (wouldn’t that be nice?!)

Action Choice Economic Fighting Puzzle Area Control Tile Placement Worker Placement Set Collection ???
Wingspan Through the Ages Evolution Sagrada Small World Dragon Castle Lords of Waterdeep Gem Rush Disc Drivin’
Race for the Galaxy Brass Neuroshima Hex Railroad Ink 8 Minute Empire Castles of Burgundy Viticulture Potion Explosion Root
Puerto Rico Steam: Rails to Riches Shards of Infinity Tsuro Fort Sumter Isle of Skye Istanbul Ticket to Ride Galaxy Trucker
Roll for the Galaxy Terraforming Mars Cthulhu Realms Patchwork Twilight Struggle Yellow & Yangtze Raiders of the North Sea
Concordia Le Havre Star Realms Indian Summer Gaia Project
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PS. Forgot to mention that Lanterns has pretty much been ruled out - @js619 and I tried it out and there are no notifications whatsoever as far as we can tell.

categorization is complicated because most games qualify for more than only one category.
and so it gets very subjective.

taken seriously we would need a lot of polls to decide for many games into which category they should be placed best.

just an example:
Through The Ages more of an Action Choice game for me.

Here is a thought to simplify this, and ensure that some favorites and some new games get picked.

Run two surveys. One with games that have been in previous Decathlons (it looks like there are 12 on the list) and games that have not been in previous Decathlons.

Have us vote and take the top 5 from each list.

This does a few things, one it guarantees a bunch of new games, while limiting the cost to a max of about $50 this year for those of us who don’t own most of the games that have not been played in previous Decathlons.

(I surveyed a bunch of the games that I don’t own, which are almost all of the games that we have not had in the past, and they are all between $5 and $10, but mostly $10)

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Yes, you have action points in Through the Ages, but you aren’t choosing a specific action each round like all the others in “Action Choice.” Fundamentally, TtA is about developing your economy / engine.

It’s not about whether a game can fit into multiple categories - many of them can - it’s about what category equates to the essential nature of the game.

With apologies to the (vocal) minority that don’t like categories, the people have spoken! :wink:

So, at this point I’m not looking for suggestions to meet some other goal around game choice. Chime in if you have comments about the current proposed categories though! I’ll give it another couple of days and then post polls for the weekend.

If we get to a point where people aren’t interested in participating for some reason (don’t like the games, too many new games, not enough new games… :stuck_out_tongue: ) let’s cross that bridge then. I honestly think it’s a lot of hand-wringing for nothing at this point.

Choosing from specific actions like Brass? And Gaia Project? And Twilight Struggle? Fundamentally, Wingspan is about developing your engine…

I’ll play whatever list of games we end up with, but with these categorizations, some of the votes would be a vote for “Best Picture”, while others seem more like “Best Key Grip”. Good way to get some new games in there though!

The main way I tried to group things together was “how do you win the game?” and “what main mechanic do you have to use to win?”

Sure, you pick actions in various games, and various games involve building an engine, etc. but if you look at the “Action Choice” list, they all require you to pick a single role/action on your turn and that’s all you get.

The “Economic” category could probably have been renamed “City/Empire Building” where again there are some examples like Gaia Project that - for the goal of distribution across multiple events - fit better in a different grouping of the multiple events it could have been part of.

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Considering that the point of creating categories is to broaden the range on games we play rather than to classify and organize them, broad and general categories and arguable categorizations probably work well enough.

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At the risk of seeming flippant, I have two categories these days:

  • Games That Are Awesome And Fun
  • Games That Are Boring Or Broken

Ten years ago, my categories were simply

  • Hexagons
  • Cards
  • Backgammon

Now I really only care whether the game is fun or not. Let’s have more fun, less boredom. If that means 10 games with the same mechanism, I’m fine with that.

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I have no horses in this race. Let’s vote :slight_smile:

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Quite. Also category 2 trumps category 1, so very limited time for Fun but Broken games. Terraforming Mars is at the limits of my tolerance these days. 1776 is outside now - it was excellent playing with @js619 and others but we had to work at it.

Some of the decathlon games have been category 2 for me but that’s fine, you never know until you play. :blush:

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