Yeah, war is bad and civilian casualties are bad, and you certainly are not going to find me defending the invasion of Afghanistan, but I think it’s just the recency of the thing that gets people’s goat for the most part. Did you feel the same way about the same developer’s Vietnam game?
I’m more interested in the critique that the game is off base because COIN (not my critique, borrowed from elsewhere,not sure what to think about it) actually doesn’t work and Afghanistan has proven it.
I did see that point made in the Pocket Tactics review of Afghanistan '11. Maybe that’s where you read it?
Do you mean Labyrinth: The War on Terror (not a COIN game) or A Distant Plain (COIN Vol 3)?
Actually, since both apply to my question, both of them!
But yeah, I was conflating the two into one game. The picture I had in my mind was Labyrinth.
Do you feel the same about one of the GMT Games COIN games, War on Terror?
Haven’t played them. Its not a genre of game that I really feel comfortable about as these issues of civilian deaths occur in these types of operations and they often have far moer complicated politics and events than a game can really portray.
Then it appears that you do feel that way about them (or at least that genre of game).
Which is perfectly valid. I was just curious.
Yeah, war is bad and civilian casualties are bad, and you certainly are not going to find me defending the invasion of Afghanistan, but I think it’s just the recency of the thing that gets people’s goat for the most part. Did you feel the same way about the same developer’s Vietnam game?
Vietnam is an utter cesspool of a conflict. What happened to the civilian populations of the country over the course of the conflicts there was horrid. I read a fair bit about the conflict while I was in university and even thought about writing about it as a thesis but then life went some other way.
Reading Bright Shining Lie was eye-opening.
That’s war. Every single war sees civilian casualties.
This is not about war though its about counterinsurgency and that is a much different beast than two armies facing off against one another.
Also, typically in games we don’t use mechanisms that we know directly result in innocent civilians being killed. Drones and airstrikes in Afghanistan end up with innocent civilian deaths.
Its why I would never play any of the B17 series of games as well but that is a different topic.
Could be. I think I also saw it in one or two Steam reviews.
The QT3 review here makes the same point, that Vietnam 65 takes as its starting point the understanding of the war as it stood in the minds of the US command, and plays it completely straight. I seem to remember the TMA podcast expanding on this thought too.
On ‘acceptable’ wargames, it’s not unreasoanble to draw personal limits. I happily played a Falkands game but would balk at a Northern Ireland COIN game. Tim Stone wrote a brilliant Flare Path piece last week about the death of his great-grandfather in a minor battle in the Ypres salient, and his own discomfort at what it means to enjoy games of simulated war.
Sometimes I wonder what Thomas would have made of his great-grandson’s penchant for play – my enthusiasm for representations of war that are both ‘realistic’ and resolutely superficial at the same time. Sometimes I wonder whether I’d happily spend so much time recreating WW2 dramas if I had ancestors who’d perished at Alamein, Arnhem, Stalingrad or St. Vith. Do I need emotional distance to wargame with an easy conscience?
If the answer’s ‘yes’ then maybe I’m closer to those medal-festooned Fates in that far-from-the-front château than I care to admit.
Until they fix the 64-bit issue I’m kind of done with Slitherine.
It’s out, US App Store at least. $19.99, doesn’t appear to have IAP. Link below for those interested, as it didn’t show up with a title search - had to look under Slitherine.
Afghanistan '11 by Slitherine
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/afghanistan-11/id1288553165?mt=8
A quick warning to Stately Players - I picked this up yesterday, and it is a very fun game, but there is currently a game breaking bug in it. You can’t heal units at a Forward Operating Base, even if you buy the base upgrade. This is such a key mechanic, its hard to believe that it made it through playtesting.
I’m not familiar with the game industry, but does testing form part of the publisher’s duties? If it does then I’m pretty fed up with Slitherine. Panzer Corps also had a game breaking bug on the ipad that took them the best part of the year to fix. And this comes on top of the whole 64 bit debacle - I get that they don’t have any obligation to update, but they are the only producer of premium priced apps that didn’t update (at least in my collection). Not showing much goodwill to their customers.
I guess its my own fault for continuing to give them my money, but there’s not many other people making games like this. Shame they don’t seem to have as much regard for their customers as I do their games!
Glad someone was the guinea pig on this one… I was holding off on it because Warhammer Quest 2…
I was holding off on it because of the price.
$20 US means it’s going to be $30 for me, probably (I should go check).
That takes it from “impulse buy, hopefully I’ll play it” to “I’d better damned well want to play it.”
And so far, that feeling ain’t there.
To be fair, I think its a tremendous game, once they sort out the bugs. And the crashes.I was really enjoying it until I hit the bug - I hate bugs like this because it takes ages to confirm that you just haven’t misunderstood the rules.
Yeah - for $30, maybe wait!
Price was definitely a consideration with this one, although it usually doesn’t factor into my decision making with iOS games - I would gladly pay and have paid that for games. Were I not obsessed with WHQ2 and TtA lately I probably would’ve pulled the trigger on this one, even at that price point.
Ditto on the price giving pause. Usually I believe in putting my money where my mouth is and paying a proper price for premium games, and I’ve been looking forward to A’11, but £20 is enough to make me go hm- especially with FarmVille in Space Hades’ Star and WHQ2 already absorbing lots of time.
Also, despite fucking Brexit, £20 does not yet equal $20.
Further also, this is Slitherine who were content to let premium games wither on the 32-bit vine looks resentfully at Qvadriga
Yeah, all of that is a consideration for me.
But the main one for me is the difference between taking a chance on a game that I may not play but looks interesting and wanting to support the developer, and “If I spend that much money, I have to know I’m going to play it.”
I bought Vietnam '65 when it was on sale (but probably still too much for an “impulse buy”) and really haven’t touched it.
I can’t afford to do that with a $30 game.
Doesn’t help that I can’t find any reviews of the iOS version at all, coupled with @feederofgoats crash and bug issues.